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Title: Chuck Baldwin: This is so frustrating! (Franklin Graham - statist preaching)
Source: Chuck Baldwin / Facebook
URL Source: https://m.facebook.com/permalink.ph ... 81260979465&id=226997970644468
Published: Mar 18, 2015
Author: Chuck Baldwin
Post Date: 2015-03-18 18:49:06 by hondo68
Keywords: 501c3 non-profit organization, Romans 13, YOU OBEY!, demonic interpretat
Views: 5510
Comments: 27

The Hitlerian "obey-the-government-no-matter-what" rubbish being disseminated by America's preachers is ubiquitous. The latest notable example is Franklin Graham. On his Facebook page on March 12, he said:

"Listen up--Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and everybody else. Most police shootings can be avoided. It comes down to respect for authority and obedience. If a police officer tells you to stop, you stop. If a police officer tells you to put your hands in the air, you put your hands in the air. If a police officer tells you to lay down face first with your hands behind your back, you lay down face first with your hands behind your back. It’s as simple as that. Even if you think the police officer is wrong—YOU OBEY! "Parents, teach your children to respect and obey those in authority. Mr. President, this is the message our nation needs to hear, and they need to hear it from you. Some of the unnecessary shootings we have seen recently might have been avoided. The Bible says to submit to your leaders and those in authority “because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account.”

Jeepers! Creepers! The scripture passage that Mr. Graham uses has nothing to do with unconditional subservience to a policeman, but humble submission to pastoral authority (See Heb. 13:7, 17).

Does Mr. Graham really believe that church members are supposed to submit to their pastors regardless? Yeah, I'd like to see a pastor preach that one Sunday morning! Talk about taking the Bible out of context! Franklin Graham should know better. I suppose wives and children are to obey their husbands and fathers unconditionally as well? Or is it only government officials who have God-ordained tyrannical authority?

Mr. Graham is an outspoken critic of Islam. I wonder if he would spew forth the above "YOU OBEY!" message if Sharia Law was the law of the land? Had he lived in Germany at the rise of the Third Reich, would he have spewed forth the same message? Or maybe in Stalin's Russia? And I suppose he would preach the "YOU OBEY" message to those suffering saints in Red China who are languishing in the gulags for preaching the Gospel or for operating non-state-licensed churches contrary to China's law enforcers.

This constant and perpetual message of total submission to civil government "no matter what" that is pouring forth from our nation's pulpits is doing more to enslave America than anything any foreign enemy could ever hope to do.

The real message that we need to hear from our pulpits today is that EVERYONE must obey the Natural, divine laws of God and the constitutional laws of our country--even policemen! Policemen and military personnel are NOT ABOVE THE LAW--GOD OR MAN'S!

In order for us to respect law enforcers, they must act respectfully, which means THEY must respect both the law they represent and the citizens for whom they work. It takes more than a badge and a gun to earn respect.

Yes, honest, God-fearing folks respect the POSITION held by law enforcement officers, but there can be no respect for those individuals who use the position of law enforcer to misuse and abuse the law!

It's time that Franklin Graham, and the rest of America's preachers, start teaching the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD relative to good government. John the Baptist is a good example in this regard. He demanded that the law enforces of his day commit no violence...meaning no injustice, no abuse of authority, no false accusations, no using their power for self aggrandizement or career-building, etc. (Read Luke 3:14)

Speaking of The Baptizer, I wonder if Franklin Graham would have told John, "YOU OBEY" King Herod and keep your mouth shut regarding the king's unlawful conduct?

This is so frustrating!


Poster Comment:

America's Pastors Are Doing More To Enslave Our Country Than Any Foreign Power

Having to write this column is so very frustrating. I think I’m beginning to know how the Old Testament prophets of Israel felt. And how they basically felt was ALL ALONE. Their messages were not popular, to say the least. Many of them faced, not only the ire and condemnation of the citizens of their country, but also the abuse and persecution of the established powers. And believe me, if some of the “good Christian” people who have written me the past three or four weeks had the legal power to do it, Chuck Baldwin would have already faced the same fate of the prophets of old. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

For one thing, when a man such as Jeremiah, Isaiah, Elijah, or Micaiah delivered a message, they were drowned out by the hundreds and thousands of the king’s prophets. In one way or another, these men were on the king’s dole. They received the king’s “faith-based initiative” monies. They were invited to the king’s banquets. They received the king’s tax exemptions. They were afforded the king’s perks and privileges.

Therefore, it was not surprising that when a Jeremiah or Micaiah brought a message of judgment upon the land, he was drowned out in a cacophony of public rebuke by the king’s prophets. God’s prophets almost always stood ALONE.

And amazingly enough, the same scenario is taking place again in what is now the American Empire. (America was established and built as a constitutional republic, but now it does not remotely resemble its heritage. It has, without a shadow of a doubt, taken the form of an unaccountable, might-makes-right-hegemonic empire.) The vast majority of America’s prophets (preachers, pastors, evangelists, etc.) are directly or indirectly in the employ of the government (king). A host of them are receiving federal tax dollars directly from the federal government in the form of “faith based initiative” monies. Do you think for one minute that these pastors are going to say a peep in protest about the unlawful, unconstitutional conduct routinely taking place by the federal government? Not a chance in Hades!

As soon as someone goes on the public dole, for the most part, the government has successfully and thoroughly purchased their SILENCE.

In the second place, the vast majority of pastors and churches have voluntarily placed themselves directly under the supervision and authority of the federal government by accepting the 501c3 non-profit organization status from the Internal Revenue Service. And by so doing, the vast majority of pastors and churches will consciously do or say NOTHING that could jeopardize that non-profit tax status. And, once again, the federal government has successfully and thoroughly purchased their SILENCE.

Of course, the other problem we have in our pulpits today is the demonic interpretation associated with Romans 13. Every Sunday all across America, the king’s prophets (puppets would be a better word) are emphatically telling their congregations to obey the civil government “no-matter-what.” Every Sunday, there are hundreds of pastors regurgitating this demonic doctrine to their people.

Without a doubt, America’s pastors are doing more to enslave our country than any foreign power.

The egregious misinterpretation of Romans 13 is a blight that is turning the most courageous champions of freedom-loving Christian men the world had ever known to some of the most sheepish, pathetic, indifferent, and milquetoast wimps in the universe. And it is the devilish interpretation of Romans 13 that demands Christians obey civil authorities “no-matter-what” that is responsible for it.

In order for us to respect law enforcers, they must act respectfully, which means THEY must respect both the law they represent and the citizens for whom they work. It takes more than a badge and a gun to earn respect.

Yes, honest, God-fearing folks respect the POSITION held by law enforcement officers, but there can be no respect for those individuals who use the position of law enforcer to misuse and abuse the law!

The Bible is replete with examples of God’s people who deliberately DISOBEYED civil government and received God’s supreme approbation. I wonder if America’s pastors are still teaching the stories of David and Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and practically every Old Testament prophet, including John The Baptist.

I wonder if they are still retelling the stories (and explaining the significance of them for us today) of Simon Peter and the other apostles, including Paul, who spend about as much time in jail as out of jail for their defiance of civil authorities. And I further wonder if they have ever bothered to teach the life of Christ, which shows that He CONSTANTLY defied the authority of the Pharisees, who were acting as governing agents of the Roman Empire over Jerusalem and Judea.

What America really needs to be hearing from our preachers today is the whole counsel of God related to the fact that EVERYONE, including those in law enforcement, the U.S. military, those in Congress, and even the President of the United States, are obligated to obey the Natural and moral laws of God and the Constitution of The United States, that NO ONE is above the law--not even policemen or soldiers.

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#1. To: hondo68, redleghunter, Vicomte13, BobCeleste (#0)

Romans 13 food fight ping.

I'm more in agreement with Baldwin than Graham.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-18   19:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: hondo68 (#0)

Chuck Baldwin: This is so frustrating! (Franklin Graham - statist preaching)

It's also typical.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-18   19:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#1)

" I'm more in agreement with Baldwin than Graham. "

I am also.

Today's preachers are not like the ones we had at the time of the Revolutionary War.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-18   22:36:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#1)

Baldwin may have a point. However when he fills up hundreds of planes and ships for relief efforts worldwide, then I will listen to him.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   23:31:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: redleghunter (#4)

Baldwin didn't have a very famous dad and his network with which to start such an effort.

I don't think he would be as famous or as big in the charity/relief realm if his last name was not Graham.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-19   6:15:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: TooConservative (#5)

Baldwin didn't have a very famous dad and his network with which to start such an effort.

I don't think he would be as famous or as big in the charity/relief realm if his last name was not Graham.

While it is true that he has a famous last name, it is still up to each individual as to what they do with their heritage.

It's been said "God has no grandchildren" - meaning we all have free will to do or not do His will or to follow Him. God doesn't give us a pass because of our family name.

And as to famous last names - how about "Kennedy?"

How much good has been done in that name?

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-03-19   7:06:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: redleghunter (#4)

Baldwin may have a point. However when he fills up hundreds of planes and ships for relief efforts worldwide, then I will listen to him.

Planes and ships filled with relief efforts are not the only thing that Graham and his spawn have filled, they seem to do very well with filling their own coffers with money, do a little checking as to the fortune that they have been able to amass...

westvalley  posted on  2015-03-19   8:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Rufus T Firefly (#6)

And as to famous last names - how about "Kennedy?"

How much good has been done in that name?

It opens a lot of doors.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-19   9:03:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: westvalley (#7)

Planes and ships filled with relief efforts are not the only thing that Graham and his spawn have filled, they seem to do very well with filling their own coffers with money, do a little checking as to the fortune that they have been able to amass...

I would still estimate Franklin as far far more effective than his more famous father, both in actual evangelism and in charity.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-19   9:04:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: TooConservative (#9)

And I bet that he is just as good at skimming about 90% off of the top for himself as his father was....

westvalley  posted on  2015-03-19   9:25:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: westvalley (#10)

And I bet that he is just as good at skimming about 90% off of the top for himself as his father was....

Billy was one of the first ministries that had full open books and accountability. The problem with Billy was his preaching and those stadium events, not with his finances.

Franklin has practiced similar accountability in his charity.

I don't think there has ever been a whiff of scandal over the Grahams' finances. The family property is pretty fancy but not wildly excessive the way other televangelist-conmen are, like the Bakkers or Swaggert or Osteen, etc..

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-19   9:49:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: TooConservative (#11)

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/billy-graham-net-worth/

Here it is......

westvalley  posted on  2015-03-19   10:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: hondo68 (#0)

Therefore, it was not surprising that when a Jeremiah or Micaiah brought a message of judgment upon the land, he was drowned out in a cacophony of public rebuke by the king’s prophets. God’s prophets almost always stood ALONE.

Yep.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-19   11:18:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: westvalley (#12)

And I bet that he is just as good at skimming about 90% off of the top for himself as his father was....

Based on what? Some wild guess they pulled out of their asses?

How can you be so gullible?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-19   12:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#14)

I am not that gullible you are, but why should I waste my time talking to an t idiot? It is well reported that Billy Graham has a net worth of 25 million and his son sucks a million a year salary from Samaritans Purse.... not to mention his other ventures

westvalley  posted on  2015-03-19   13:47:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: redleghunter, 501c3 FEMA church, see something-say something, snitchez for satan, tyrany insurance, *Bill of Rights-Constitution* (#4)

Community agitator race pimps in Ferguson, March 14, 2015. Billy Graham - Clergy response team, tyranny insurance salesmen.

Rabid Response Team

Prayer and protest: Ferguson attracts Billy Graham's rapid response team



The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

hondo68  posted on  2015-03-19   14:06:42 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: TooConservative (#5)

Baldwin didn't have a very famous dad and his network with which to start such an effort.

I don't think he would be as famous or as big in the charity/relief realm if his last name was not Graham.

Franklin could have taken that money and instead be a Joel Osteen. He didn't. We have Samaritan's Purse and not a prosperity gospel NYT best seller book.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   14:17:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: westvalley (#7)

LOL I will ask them for their tax returns.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   14:18:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: hondo68 (#0)

"Listen up--Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and everybody else. Most police shootings can be avoided. It comes down to respect for authority and obedience. If a police officer tells you to stop, you stop. If a police officer tells you to put your hands in the air, you put your hands in the air. If a police officer tells you to lay down face first with your hands behind your back, you lay down face first with your hands behind your back. It’s as simple as that. Even if you think the police officer is wrong—YOU OBEY!

As much as it pains me to defend that drone,he is 100 percent correct.

This isn't the 1950's,when most policemen saw themselves as serving and defending the public. Today there are many,many cops who see themselves as the masters of the public,and wannabe flesh and blood Robo Cop crime fighters,gunning down criminals on a daily basis.

As much as it goes against my own nature,the CORRECT thing to do is whatever the cop tells you to do because the MoFo DOES have the authority to gun you down and get away with it regardless of his or your race and gender.

The time to protest is afterwards,when you can gather any witnesses and evidence of your innocence and his or her wrongdoings,and present them all to a court of law where he has to answer for his or her actions.

True,your survivors can do this for you,but it is much more satisfying to still be alive and able to do it for yourself.

We are no longer talking about right and wrong,here. We are talking about survival.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-19   14:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: TooConservative (#1)

I'm more in agreement with Baldwin than Graham.

I'm more in avoiding fights you can't win,and fighting when and how you can win.

Either in court,or in payback.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-19   14:21:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: hondo68 (#16)

What's wrong with Christian relief efforts?

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   14:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: redleghunter, 501c3 FEMA church (#21)

What's wrong with Christian relief efforts?

Do they worship Christ or Jeh Johnson? It seems like they only started caring, after after some cops got shot.

They're providing relief for the Government. Just OBEY! /s


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

hondo68  posted on  2015-03-19   14:57:38 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: hondo68 (#22)

Do they worship Christ or Jeh Johnson? It seems like they only started caring, after after some cops got shot.

They provided support chaplain support for the police and also provided ministry support for the protesters. While most Americans watched cable TV wringing their hands.

“The police force needed chaplains after the shooting, and we’ve also been serving the protesters,” said Al New, manager of the team’s U.S. deployments, who drove the truck.

Ferguson, reeling since the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown seven months ago and subsequent demonstrations, has been thrust into the center of a national debate on race and policing.

Tensions flared this month with the release of a U.S. Justice Department report detailing what it called systemic bias in the police force and a court system that disproportionately levied steep fines on Ferguson’s black residents.

On Sunday, when officials announced a suspect had been arrested in the shooting of the police officers, shouting and shoving broke out among scores of protesters outside Ferguson’s police station.

Soon, uniformed Graham chaplains emerged from the mobile conference room parked across the street, talking people down and even dragging a woman by the wrist from an angry crowd.

Over the course of the day, the chaplains invited people into the truck, offering snacks and prayer.

http://www.religionnews.com/2015/03/16/ferguson-turmoil-draws-billy-grahams- rapid-response-team/

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-19   15:34:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: TooConservative (#5)

I don't think he would be as famous or as big in the charity/relief realm if his last name was not Graham.

Yep, on the two or three occasions that I've seen him interviewed, he struck me as being kind of a dimwit.

cranko  posted on  2015-03-19   17:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: sneakypete (#19)

We are no longer talking about right and wrong,here. We are talking about survival.

EXACTLY. And I would argue that that's really what Jesus, Peter and Paul were about when Jesus said to pay the taxes, not start a tax revolt and don't draw the sword on the city guard, and Peter Paul said to respect and pray for the authorities.

Because what good are you to others if you're d-e-a-d dead? How many people are going to hear the good news from you if you died on a spearpoint?

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-19   18:01:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#23)

They provided support chaplain support for the police and also provided ministry support for the protesters. While most Americans watched cable TV wringing their hands.

I don't quite get why the local clergy was considered inadequate to the task. Surely Missouri hasn't run out of preachers and actually need Billy Graham to import some in his Chaplainmobile.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-20   8:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: TooConservative (#26)

Surely Missouri hasn't run out of preachers and actually need Billy Graham to import some in his Chaplainmobile.

Perhaps the local pastors were too busy adding fuel to the fire.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-20   14:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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