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Title: Bill Clinton: Norms have really changed in terms of what you can do to somebody against their will
Source: HotAir
URL Source: https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06 ... anged-terms-can-somebody-will/
Published: Jun 11, 2018
Author: Allahpundit
Post Date: 2018-06-11 20:30:47 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 358
Comments: 26

You think I’m exaggerating what he actually said in the headline but I’m not. Direct quote, bro.

The inspiration for this sentiment is Al Franken, one of the most minor celebrity offenders of the #MeToo era. What Clinton has in mind when he mentions doing things to women against their will is, presumably, what Franken was accused of — a butt-squeeze here, a too-friendly “friendly” kiss there, the sort of “Mad Men” behavior that might have been seen as a bit fresh in the workplace in years past but certainly not something that’d cost you a job or a U.S. Senate seat. Norms have changed, it’s true. And if it’s alarming to hear it described in terms of being allowed to do things to women “against their will,” well, that’s the whole point from the #MeToo perspective. You really could do certain things to them against their will in the past and pay no legal or professional consequences. Franken’s toppling was a sort of ritual sacrifice aimed at drawing a new red line: Henceforth, there’s no such thing as “too minor” when it comes to touching a woman without her consent.

All well and good. Except that, coming from this guy, who stands credibly accused of rape by Juanita Broaddrick, hearing him chatter about an era in which it was fine to do certain things to women against their will makes you want to lie down on the floor in the fetal position until the shock from his obliviousness subsides. And not just Broaddrick, of course: There’s also the small matter of what he allegedly did to Paula Jones and Kathleen Willey. You’re left wondering whether he is oblivious or if this is him slyly but deliberately offering his own Weinstein-esque defense to the multitude of sex-related offenses he’s been accused of. Times were different. Just as we’re asked to judge the behavior of other great men of the past by the standards of their times, we must judge the Clenis by the archaic standards of, ah, the 1980s and 90s.

He tosses this into his answer too:
I think that — I will be honest — the Franken case, for me, was a difficult case, a hard case. There may be things I don’t know. But I — maybe I’m just an old-fashioned person, but it seemed to me that there were 29 women on “Saturday Night Live” that put out a statement for him, and that the first and most fantastic story was called, I believe, into question.

No doubt scores of women who worked for Bill Clinton over decades had nothing but professional interactions with him. So what? What does it prove? The idea that unless you’ve harassed everyone you can’t be plausibly believed to have harassed anyone was strange when Franken tried it and it’s strange when Clinton’s trying it by associating himself with the idea.

Exit question: Who thought this book tour with James Patterson was a good idea? Every time you change the channel over the past week, some reporter’s giving Clinton a furrowed brow and asking him about Monica Lewinsky and #MeToo. (Broaddrick remains an Unperson to the media.) Surely Clinton and Patterson have enough celebrity juice between them that they could have moved sales without needing to go on TV to hawk their work. Lord knows neither one needs the money. If need be, Patterson could have done the tour solo and handled a slew of requisite dopey “What was it like to work with Bill Clinton?” questions. It’s inexplicable that Clinton would submit himself to this unless he’s worried that Democrats and the media are about to turn him into an Unperson too, as he’s extremely “unhelpful” to their #MeToo politics, and is forcing himself back into the public eye to remind Americans that he’s still around and relevant. If that was the point of the tour, to try to will himself back to respectability, I think it’s already failed.


Poster Comment:

The Xlinton interview is excruciating, embarrassing to even hear him offer his opinions on men assaulting women in the workplace.

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#1. To: Tooconservative (#0)

What do you expect from that decrepit old democRat rapist piece of shit?

Hank Rearden  posted on  2018-06-11   20:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Hank Rearden (#1)

I can't imagine why he thinks anyone wants to hear his opinion about women getting sexually harassed at work. It's just jawdropping.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-11   21:00:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Tooconservative (#2)

I can't imagine why he thinks anyone wants to hear his opinion about women getting sexually harassed at work.

He has first hand experience.

buckeroo  posted on  2018-06-11   22:34:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Tooconservative (#0)

Bill Clinton: Norms have really changed in terms of what you can do to somebody against their will

Bill and Hillary have worked hard to change those norms.

rlk  posted on  2018-06-12   1:06:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Tooconservative (#0)

Norms have really changed in terms of what you can do to somebody against their will ...

... or what you can say to them or how you can look at them.

He makes a good point. It's just that he's the wrong messenger.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   8:05:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: misterwhite (#5)

what you can do to somebody against their will

This is problematic. Other euphemisms for this are "sexual assault" and "rape" and words like that.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-12   9:15:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Tooconservative (#6) (Edited)

This is problematic. Other euphemisms for this are "sexual as assault" and "rape" and words like that.

I used to know what those terms meant. Today I don't.

Not when "rape" is defined as having second thoughts on the consensual sex you had the night before. Or falling asleep or changing your mind halfway though. Or reporting it 20 years after the fact. That's not rape. That's bad judgement. Yours. And what are the consequences for lying about it? None.

And why is sexual assault different than rape? Rape is sexual assault. Sexual assault is rape. Ah. Not anymore.

Not when "sexual assault" is now defined as unwanted grabbing, touching or brushing against someone. Or when a man like Aziz Ansari engages in every form of consensual sex with a woman except intercourse then presses her for intercourse and she says no, leaves, and then says she was sexually assaulted.

As for sexual harassment claims. They've gotten so ridiculous that it's not worth debating.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   10:14:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: misterwhite (#7)

Not when "sexual assault" is now defined as unwanted grabbing, touching or brushing against someone.

Well, that would be things like grabbing 'em by the pussy.

Or a stranger rubbing a stiffie against your wife or daughter on a crowded subway train.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-12   10:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Tooconservative (#8)

Well, that would be things like grabbing 'em by the pussy.

Unwanted grabbing 'em by the pussy.

I believe Trump said, "And when you’re a star, they let you … grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything." I have the transcript if you're interested in the facts.

"Or a stranger rubbing a stiffie against your wife or daughter on a crowded subway train."

That's not sexual assault. That's suicidal behavior if I'm around. I ask you, when's the last time (or the first time) you read a "sexual assault" story involving a stranger rubbing a stiffie against a wife or daughter on a crowded subway train? I don't deny it happens. I'm simply saying it's not national news. Most women deal with this boorish behavior on the spot, not report it to the New York Times.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   10:57:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: misterwhite (#9)

I ask you, when's the last time (or the first time) you read a "sexual assault" story involving a stranger rubbing a stiffie against a wife or daughter on a crowded subway train? I don't deny it happens.

It does happen though. And women shouldn't have to just put up with it. They didn't pay their fare to ride and accept that some skeevy perv was going to start humping their legs or use mirrors on their shoes to do up-skirt peeks or whatnot.

I was only citing an example of an ordinary type of casual sexual assault since you brought it up.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-12   12:12:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: misterwhite, tooconservative (#9)

Unwanted grabbing 'em by the pussy.

I believe Trump said, "And when you’re a star, they let you … grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything."

Thanks for clarifying a distinction, and quote by Trump that has rarely been emphasized as THE THRUST of the matter.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-12   12:43:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: misterwhite, tooconservative (#9)

"Or a stranger rubbing a stiffie against your wife or daughter on a crowded subway train."

That's not sexual assault. That's suicidal behavior if I'm around...Most women deal with this boorish behavior on the spot..

Uh, yeah, pretty close to "sexual assault". And no, odds *you* would NOT be around to do anything about it. And even if you were, would you risk arrest and risk to your wife/GF from what *could* be construed as ambiguous or "accidental" act?

Yes, most women would and do deal with that kinda of crap. My understanding is that it's gotten far worse in frequency as well as more obvious.

What I find disturbing is the Fake MSM *suddenly discovering rape and assault (while ignoring Bubba's *documented* serial cases), but then slandering *Trump* for nothing of the sort...then portraying *him* as THE Poster Boy for sexual assault based on their own fake reporting.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-12   13:05:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Tooconservative (#10)

"I was only citing an example of an ordinary type of casual sexual assault since you brought it up.

First of all, "casual sexual assault" is a bit of an oxymoron, is it not? But it does make my point. Everything is called sexual assault nowadays and, worse, the criminal justice system is being used to resolve it.

Boorish behavior is solved by a slap in the face. Period. That's the way it used to be and it worked.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   13:09:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Liberator (#12)

My understanding is that it's gotten far worse in frequency as well as more obvious.

Because women let it happen. Maybe they should try a word of warning followed by a slap in the face followed by telling another man nearby who will then, being the gentleman he is and with a tip of his hat, resolve the matter.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   13:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Liberator (#12)

What I find disturbing is the Fake MSM *suddenly discovering rape and assault

With most of it affecting the entertainment industry. Oh, the irony. Better yet, they can't just sweep it under the rug.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   13:16:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite, Liberator (#14)

Because women let it happen. Maybe they should try a word of warning followed by a slap in the face followed by telling another man nearby who will then, being the gentleman he is and with a tip of his hat, resolve the matter.

Those White Knights you imagine are in pretty short supply in the big cities, I think. The Damsels In Distress should have a firearm.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-12   13:33:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Tooconservative (#16)

Those White Knights you imagine are in pretty short supply in the big cities, I think.

Well then they're obviously not needed. Women are equal and can take care of themselves. So screw you and the misogynistic horse you rode in on.

Some man brushes against her on the train she should do a Charles Bronson on him.

I get a chubbie every time I watch that clip.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   13:48:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#17)

They'd have cameras everywhere to catch Bronson nowadays. You'd want to disguise yourself as a woman in a burqa or something.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-12   14:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Tooconservative (#18) (Edited)

You'd want to disguise yourself as a woman in a burqa or so something.

I'll wear a hoodie and blend in with the bad guys. Maybe add a Guy Fawkes mask and pretend I'm a hacktivist.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-12   14:57:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Tooconservative (#0)

All well and good. Except that, coming from this guy, who stands credibly accused of rape by Juanita Broaddrick, hearing him chatter about an era in which it was fine to do certain things to women against their will makes you want to lie down on the floor in the fetal position until the shock from his obliviousness subsides. And not just Broaddrick, of course: There’s also the small matter of what he allegedly did to Paula Jones and Kathleen Willey. You’re left wondering whether he is oblivious or if this is him slyly but deliberately offering his own Weinstein-esque defense to the multitude of sex-related offenses he’s been accused of.

This is Bubba Bill we are talking about. Normal rules don't apply to him.

I quote "That all depends on what the meaning of the word "is",is,said with a big smile.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-06-13   17:14:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#19)

I'll wear a hoodie and blend in with the bad guys. Maybe add a Guy Fawkes mask and pretend I'm a hacktivist.

Or maybe a Jimmy Carter mask,and pretend you are Hillary?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-06-13   17:17:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Tooconservative (#0)

Exit question: Who thought this book tour with James Patterson was a good idea?

I'm surprised Patterson stooped that low to write a book with Clinton.

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-06-13   18:31:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: CZ82 (#22)

It's all about the money for Patterson. And Xlinton. Benefits them both.

They're doing a very successful book tour, despite some of these uncomfortable interviews with the First Rapist.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-14   0:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Tooconservative (#23) (Edited)

It's all about the money for Patterson. And Xlinton. Benefits them both.

Considering he is worth 10 times what Bubba is he didn't need the money.

Makes you wonder how much his book sales are going to suffer in the future?

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-06-14   7:34:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: CZ82 (#24)

Makes you wonder how much his book sales are going to suffer in the future?

He seems pretty savvy. I don't think this is going to hurt what remains of his career at all. Anyway, the only venom you see right now is toward Xlinton, not his co-author.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-14   7:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Tooconservative (#25)

He seems pretty savvy. I don't think this is going to hurt what remains of his career at all. Anyway, the only venom you see right now is toward Xlinton, not his co-author.

The reason I say that is people/businesses that come out in support of the Leftard ideology don't seem to do near as well after their announcement, at least that's been the trend for the last 8 years or so.

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-06-15   6:45:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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