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Title: Know Your Ruby Ridge Apologists
Source: The Libertarian Institute
URL Source: https://libertarianinstitute.org/ar ... ow-your-ruby-ridge-apologists/
Published: Aug 22, 2019
Author: Peter R. Quinones
Post Date: 2019-08-23 10:26:27 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 54
Comments: 6

Books have been written about the ATF/Marshals Service and FBI actions at Ruby Ridge so  great detail is not needed here. Randy Weaver’s 14-year-old son, Sammy, and his wife Vicki were killed by government bullets. One US Marshall was shot and killed. 

When Weaver and his family moved to Idaho (about 40 miles from the Canadian border) Randy started to fellowship with the Aryan Nations, a white supremacist group that had a property in the area. Although Randy didn’t join the group the association is damning enough, especially when the corporate media gets running with that narrative. The ATF had an undercover agent in the group who convinced Randy to sell him a couple shotguns.  When delivery was made, the undercover agent asked Randy to saw off the barrels. At first Randy balked, but after much prodding he performed the task. Randy was arrested and told that if he became an informant for the Feds against the Aryan Nations the charges would be dropped. He refused and the Feds pursued prosecuting him.

Randy appeared at a couple hearings but after one date was changed, he missed court. Charges were filed for “failure to appear” and a warrant was issued. The Feds decided Randy would resist arrest with violence so a secret operation was planned. 

Six US Marshals entered the property unannounced on August 21, 1992. The Weaver’s dog started to bark at them at which time they shot and killed it. Fourteen-year-old Sammy Weaver and a family friend, Kevin Harris, grabbed rifles and ran to investigate the gunshot. The Marshals shot Sammy in the back killing him. Another Marshal, firing wildly, shot and killed US Marshall William Degan. The Marshals immediately asked for an FBI sniper team. 

On the second day of the standoff, Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris left the house with weapons and walked the immediate area around the cabin. Believing (or using the excuse) that the two were going to shoot at FBI helicopters, FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi opened fire hitting Randy in the arm. As Weaver and Harris ran back to the house, Horiuchi fired again, allegedly trying to hit Harris. His round went through the front door hitting Randy’s wife Vicki in the face while she held her infant daughter. Vicki died almost immediately. 

A week later Harris and Weaver surrendered and were arrested. An Idaho jury found Harris and Weaver not guilty of murder, conspiracy and assault, although Randy was found guilty of the original failure to appear charge. He served three months and won a 3.1 million dollar lawsuit against the Feds. 

The ‘Law and Order’ Defenders 

His father refused to appear in court for charges, and after a gunfight broke out between the government and the Weavers. He broke the law. He wasn’t just wanting to be left alone.” -Rando Facebook Guy 

Above is one of the typical responses you see from the general public when Ruby Ridge is brought up. They are misinformed on not only the court issues, but who shot first. It’s just parroting what the Feds’ friends in the corporate press have told him to believe. And, of course, we get the follow up phrase taught to every “good citizen” educated by the government, “he broke the law.”  

An appeal to “the law” can most often be found on the “Right” in this country. Even the staunchest second amendment proponent will deliver this line to excuse the vilest actions of law enforcement. If a 14-year-old boy, running to see why his dog is crying, is shot in the back by the Feds, he had it coming. If a woman holding her infant takes a bullet to the face from an FBI sniper, it certainly wasn’t the shooters fault, he was probably “just following orders.” And somehow, it was deserved.  

The most astonishing, and repugnant, excuse that you will hear delivered, is that it was Randy’s fault. These people somehow manage to excuse the death of innocents by playing the “collateral damage” card. Much like, every infant killed at a wedding in the Middle East by a CIA drone is guilty of being associated with a “terrorist,” hence “who cares,” Sammy and Vickie are victims of Randy’s sins so law enforcement are heroes and deserve medals when they “take out the trash.” As you can see, this attitude is widespread and used to dismiss any atrocity performed by those who “just want to get home to their families.” The families they slaughter had it coming. 

Guilty of ‘Wrongthink 

He was a religious fundamentalist and white separatist and he put his family in danger.” – Yet another rando Facebooker 

It cannot be stressed enough that the “Left” in this country want people they deem to carry an opinion opposed to theirs, dead. This is not hyperbole. As was mentioned in a previous column, the radicals on both sides are not seeking the logical solution when people can’t find common ground, that is separating from one another. No, they wish to use the political apparatus in place to dominate their adversary. 

Vickie Weaver believed the biblical apocalypse was imminent. Convinced they stood a better chance of surviving the tribulations described in the Bible, Randy moved the family to remote Idaho, 40 miles from the Canadian border. Was this religious fundamentalism? Yes. Were they white separatists? Apparently. Were they raising an army to fight the government or anyone else? There is no evidence of this. 

This couple, who held views outside the norms of society, decided to leave it. It is often said to people who hate government that they should just move to the woods. They literally did this and only had interactions with people in that area. Unfortunately for them, or fortunately for the thought police in this country, one of Randy’s associations was with people the Progressive Left would like to see pulled out of their homes and shot. Even people 3,000 miles away, who pose no harm to them, must be dealt with. Their thoughts are worse than any action and must be vanquished. 

Most people have not given this consideration. If the Progressive Left, the radical thinkers who appear to be influencing most of the Democratic presidential candidates for 2020, consider thoughts contrary to their own to be criminal, how are you going to exercise autonomy under their rule other than changing your mind to meet theirs? They would have no problem sending the police after you for even a made-up reason as long as they can extinguish your obvious “defect.” If they celebrate the death of a “diseased” mind in remote Idaho, what do you think they will do to their neighbor who “can’t think properly?”  

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#1. To: Deckard (#0)

... Ruby Ridge ...

Bloody Buggering Hell!

You have REPEATEDLY beaten this subject into the ground.

Give us something new and worthwhile to discuss with you …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-23   10:40:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#2. To: Gatlin, Poppy Bush, crackhead Repubican canaries (#1)

Poppy Bush's big score across the street from the WH, crack cocaine.

You have REPEATEDLY defended Poppy Bush and his CRACK COCAINE fueled actions at Ruby Ridge.

Time for another trip to the dry out clinic!

Ron Paul - Lake Jackson Texas Values

Hondo68  posted on  2019-08-23   11:03:55 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#3. To: Deckard (#0)

I don't agree that it's wrong to post this government tragedy along with Waco! Too many 'Americans' don't want to hear about 9/11 any longer, especially since our nation is filling up with Muslims....and illiterate Spanish speaking bums.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2019-08-23   11:11:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#4. To: Gatlin (#1)

Give us something new and worthwhile to discuss with you …

You could always discuss how Weaver was holed up on "his" mountain as a fugitive from justice, after he had failed to show up for trial fourteen months earlier.


Marshals Know He's There But Leave Fugitive Alone

New York Times
By The Associated Press
March 13, 1992, Section A, Page 14

A white supremacist wanted by the Government is holed up with his family atop a mountain here in northern Idaho, and United States marshals mindful of fatal shootouts with extremists in recent years are avoiding a confrontation with him.

The 44-year-old supremacist, Randy Weaver, retreated to his fortress-like cabin 14 months ago and failed to appear for trial in February 1991 on Federal weapons charges.

It is the duty of the Marshals Service to bring him to justice, but the agency is holding back.


nolu chan  posted on  2019-08-23   17:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#5. To: nolu chan (#4) (Edited)

You could always discuss how Weaver was holed up on "his" mountain as a fugitive from justice, after he had failed to show up for trial fourteen months earlier.

Weaver was (deliberately) sent the wrong court date and (understandably) failed to show up.

Of course the NY Slimes (your source) would never mention that.

Weaver's Lawyers Say Warrant Was Invalid -- Court Clerk Testifies That Suspect Was Given Wrong Date

(The Seattle Times, Friday, April 23, 1993)

In the eighth day of trial yesterday in U.S. District Court here, defense attorneys continued to question the validity of the failure-to-appear count.

Weaver and Harris are accused of murdering Deputy Marshal William Degan, Quincy, Mass., in the initial shootout. Weaver's 14-year-old son Samuel also died in that firefight, and Vicki Weaver, 42, was killed by a sniper's bullet the next day.

A court clerk testified he advised U.S. District Judge Harold Ryan that Weaver was given the wrong court date, before Ryan issued a warrant for Weaver's failure to appear.

But under further questioning by Prosecutor Ronald Howen, clerk Ronald Haberman was less definite.

"I'm saying I communicated that to judge Ryan," Haberman told Howen. "But I'm not sure when or how."

Ryan signed the warrant that set in motion events leading to the violent confrontation.

Earlier, federal probation officer Karl Richins admitted that while court officials advised him that Weaver should appear for trial on Feb. 20, 1991, he mistakenly told Weaver the date was March 20, 1991.

The government obtained a Feb. 20, 1991, fugitive warrant for Weaver.


In a strong rebuke of the Government's use of force during an armed siege, a jury in Boise, Idaho, acquitted two men today in the slaying of a Federal marshal last summer that set off an 11-day standoff in the Selkirk Mountains.

After 19 days of deliberation, virtually all of the Government's case against Randy Weaver, 45, a white separatist, and Kevin Harris, 25, a family friend, was rejected by the Federal court jury.


The FBI sniper, Lon Horiuchi, killed Vicki Weaver on Aug. 22, 1992, as she was standing in the doorway of the family cabin in northern Idaho, holding her baby daughter. Horiuchi said he was aiming at Harris, who was fleeing into the house from the sniper's first shot, and did not see Vicki Weaver.

Horiuchi was charged with involuntary manslaughter by use of a firearm in a reckless, careless or negligent manner. Woodbury said he fired the fatal shot through the front door "without first determining whether any person other than his intended target was behind the door."

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-08-23   17:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#6. To: Deckard (#5)

Weaver was (deliberately) sent the wrong court date and (understandably) failed to show up.

That's why he failed to show up for over a year???

I am well aware that one source sent him an incorrect date of March 20, 1991 when the trial date was changed from February 19, 1991 to February 20, 1991.

The Ruby Ridge incident occurred in August 1992.

I saw it at this source:


He was arrested and released with a trial set for February 19, 1991. The trial was then moved to February 20, but a probation officer sent a letter to Weaver, incorrectly stating that the new trial date was March 20. When Weaver failed to appear for trial, the court issued a bench warrant for his arrest. Weaver was subsequently indicted by a federal grand jury for failing to appear at trial, and the U.S. Marshal Service was tasked with arresting him. Marshals assessed that Weaver and his family were likely to resist violently if confronted directly, so plans for a stealth operation were drawn up.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-08-23   17:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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