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The Establishments war on Donald Trump
See other The Establishments war on Donald Trump Articles

Title: Hoo boy: Some moderate Dems now pushing censure instead of impeachment
Source: HotAir
URL Source: https://hotair.com/archives/allahpu ... g-censure-instead-impeachment/
Published: Dec 10, 2019
Author: Allahpundit
Post Date: 2019-12-10 20:17:13 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 462
Comments: 12

Not quite at the “fiasco” stage here, but getting closer.

There’s not going to be a censure vote and all of these guys know it, and Pelosi knows they know it, so imagine how irritated she’ll be to find them running to the media anyway to undermine today’s big impeachment news.

I don’t see the strategic value to them in whispering about it either. Presumably all of them will sigh and vote to impeach anyway when Pelosi demands that they do so. If the idea in talking up censure is to pander to Republican voters back home about how reluctant they are to do this, that pandering is going to be wiped out once they grit their teeth and end up doing it anyway.

Like, do these guys think pro-Trump swing voters will go easy on them next fall if they vote to impeach but make a big show of how their hearts aren’t really in it?

Those Democrats, all representing districts that Trump won in 2016, huddled on Monday afternoon in an 11th-hour bid to weigh additional — though unlikely — options to punish the president for his role in the Ukraine scandal as the House speeds toward an impeachment vote next week.

The group of about 10 members included Reps. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.), Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.), Anthony Brindisi (D-N.Y.), and Ben McAdams (D-Utah.)…

The Trump-district Democrats say they are increasingly worried that a lengthy Senate trial — which could stretch into the spring — will result in an even more polarizing 2020 campaign.

Some of the Democrats involved have quietly reached out to centrist House Republicans in recent days to see whether they would be willing to censure Trump, according to multiple lawmakers, including in conversations on the House floor.

How do Gottheimer et al. see this playing out for them? Are they actually trying to pull enough centrist Democrats together to block impeachment?

Because every last one of them would be ruthlessly primaried by the left if that happened. It’s as much of a suicide mission as Susan Collins voting to remove Trump would be.

Or are they trying to signal to Pelosi that while they might not have the votes to block impeachment, they intend to vote against it — which would be a humiliating vote of no confidence in Schiff’s case and in Pelosi herself at a moment when she wants the caucus unified?

At least I think she wants it unified. Given how tepid support for impeachment is and has been for weeks, maybe Pelosi’s made a very hard calculation here to free some of the moderates to protect themselves by voting no. She did that on the ObamaCare vote 10 years ago, you may recall — no sense demanding that vulnerable Dems vote yes on unpopular legislation that already has the 218 votes it needs to pass. But ObamaCare and impeachment were two different animals. ObamaCare was policy; impeachment is a moral rebuke of the left’s least favorite politician. Any defections on impeachment necessarily weakens that moral case, especially after the initial vote to authorize the impeachment inquiry set a baseline of 231 Dems in favor. If Pelosi has told these centrists to go ahead and vote their conscience then she really has come to see impeachment as a pure political liability.

But even so, have no doubt that she’ll follow through. It really would be a total fiasco for her to abandon ship at this late stage, when they’re at the brink of doing it. The Republican numbers in this new poll from YouGov made me laugh:

. . .

A plurality of GOPers, 47 percent, have somehow convinced themselves that House Democrats might not pull the trigger after all despite weeks of hearings in multiple committees, thousands of news stories, and endless cable news coverage. They’re obviously going to do it. The suspense has to do purely with how many members of Pelosi’s own party end up voting with Trump in the end.

Here’s the draft text of the articles of impeachment, by the way. The first count, abuse of power, summarizes the now-familiar details of the Ukraine matter. Reading through it, I’m surprised they didn’t end up charging him with bribery since their description of what Trump did matches up well enough with the relevant bits of the federal bribery statute. Here’s the law, which says it’s bribery when a person:

(2) being a public official or person selected to be a public official, directly or indirectly, corruptly demands, seeks, receives, accepts, or agrees to receive or accept anything of value personally or for any other person or entity, in return for:

(A) being influenced in the performance of any official act;

. . .

We have a public official seeking (“soliciting”) something of personal value for corrupt purposes (“benefiting his reelection”) in return for performing an official act. Why they ended up calling that abuse of power instead of bribery, I don’t know. Maybe they thought the public would have trouble seeing a transaction as “bribery” unless something tangible, like money, was involved. Or maybe they thought Americans would be more likely to support removal if they viewed Trump’s actions here as an injury to the nation, not as a means of illicit self-enrichment (of a sort). Bribery involves both but it’s mainly thought of in the latter terms, I suspect. And they’re not going to get people worked up to remove a guy who’s been open to profiting indirectly from his public office since before he was sworn in.

As for the second count, obstruction of Congress, I’m as perplexed as anyone else as to why Dems think that’s a winner when they didn’t bother waiting around to see how the courts ruled on subpoenas sent to the likes of Mick Mulvaney. To remove Trump for improperly refusing those subpoenas on his deputies’ behalf, we first have to know that his refusal was in fact improper, no? Imagine the Senate tossing him out of office for obstruction of Congress and then later President Pence wins a court battle on executive privilege grounds over some other unrelated subpoena of a deputy. “Trump was right on the law but was ousted anyway!” his fans would say. I think Gabe Malor’s right, though, that this is what Democrats are thinking:

There's a real danger that if the Senate does not convict on the obstruction of Congress count, congressional subpoenas will be forever unenforceable.

If Congress itself rules that defiance of congressional subpoenas is no error, how could the courts in any future litigation?

— Gabriel Malor (@gabrielmalor) December 10, 2019

They have to at least assert the claim that refusing a House subpoena amounts to obstruction of Congress, even if the Senate is destined to undermine that claim by voting against it. It may be that in a future dispute between the executive and the legislature a court will look back to this process to see how aggressively the House insisted on its own prerogative to hear from witnesses during an impeachment inquiry. If the House didn’t object to Trump bottling up witnesses, the court might treat it as an admission that even Congress sees merit in the idea of the White House having “absolute immunity” from having to show up and face questions. Congress is asserting its power as a co-equal branch with this second charge. It’s just … not so serious about asserting it that it’s willing to wait around until a court rules on whether Mulvaney et al. should testify.

Exit quotation via Rand Paul: “Right now I think every Republican votes against impeachment and I think that there’s a possibility of two Democrats voting against impeachment.”

Poster Comment:

What if you threw an impeachment and nobody showed up?

Probably won't stop the impeachment in the House but we have the names here of some of the Dems in the House most likely to vote against Pelosi/Schiff/Nadler.

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#1. To: Tooconservative (#0)


Abortion on demand at any stage from conception until cord cutting time.... CHECK

Impeachment.. CHECK

Open borders.. ________ after they win.

This is all about keeping the promise made to the Antifa and the Illegals who need Libtards as much as Libtards need them. If you give the Dimwads the WH, we give you number three on that list, and a country that looks just like Johannesburg or Mexico City.

A one party nation with the AunteeFascists in control will lead the world into a World War with the world being against us....JMHO.

THIS IS A TAG LINE...Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2019-12-11   0:40:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#2. To: Tooconservative (#0)

Not quite at the “fiasco” stage

Per Yuri Bezmenov, the next stage following demoralization in the process of ideological subversion is... CRISIS.

Are we there yet?

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   9:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#3. To: jeremiad (#1)


"You'd be in jail" --Donald Trump to Hillary Clinton

He told the cult he planed to break that promise - before even taking the oath of office.

And they still can't/won't see the emperor has no clothes.

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   9:27:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#4. To: Tooconservative (#0)

The 'Rats are already running for their worthless lives.

Hank Rearden  posted on  2019-12-11   11:09:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#5. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#3)

He told the cult he planed to break that promise - before even taking the oath of office.

No one actually believed he'd do that. They just liked to hear him say it since they'd said the same thing for years. We all know that new presidents always dismiss the crimes of their predecessor(s). It's futile politically to try to prosecute even major crimes by your predecessor. And you don't want to set the precedent that the first thing a new prez (like your successor) will do is to arrest the major figures of your own administration. This is why presidents get away with so much illegal activity.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   12:19:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#6. To: Tooconservative (#5)

No one actually believed he'd do that.

Evidently the folks chanting "lock her up" did.

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   12:53:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#7. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#6)

Evidently the folks chanting "lock her up" did.

They just enjoyed playing their role as a Greek chorus to what they'd said privately since the late Nineties, the last impeachment farce.

Xlinton hatred is a durable feature of the American Right.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   13:19:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#8. To: Tooconservative (#7)

They just enjoyed playing their role as a Greek chorus

How... tragic.


Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   13:29:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#9. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#8)

From your source:

By 1886, Nietzsche himself had reservations about the work, and he published a preface in the 1886 edition where he re-evaluated some of his main concerns and ideas in the text. In this post-script, Nietzsche referred to The Birth of Tragedy as "an impossible book... badly written, ponderous, embarrassing, image-mad and image-confused, sentimental, saccharine to the point of effeminacy, uneven in tempo, [and] without the will to logical cleanliness."[8] Still, he defended the "arrogant and rhapsodic book" for inspiring "fellow-rhapsodizers" and for luring them on to "new secret paths and dancing places."

Given how Nietzsche felt later about his own work, maybe you aren't making a point at all.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   13:50:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#10. To: Tooconservative (#9)

Today it's possible for the technocratic/dramatic elite to mesmerize the herd by making no point at all... in 8kUHD with 9.1 channels of surround sound.

HD Bread and Circuses.

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   14:23:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#11. To: Judas Goat (#10)

I hardly need to point out that prior to his death, Nietzsche was involved in an altercation over a horse beating and died believing that he would soon rule the world. He was a great philosopher and a great intellectual but also a great nutjob.

On 3 January 1889, Nietzsche suffered a mental breakdown.[83] Two policemen approached him after he caused a public disturbance in the streets of Turin. What happened remains unknown, but an often-repeated tale from shortly after his death states that Nietzsche witnessed the flogging of a horse at the other end of the Piazza Carlo Alberto, ran to the horse, threw his arms up around its neck to protect it, and then collapsed to the ground.[84][85]

In the following few days, Nietzsche sent short writings—known as the Wahnzettel ("Madness Letters")—to a number of friends including Cosima Wagner and Jacob Burckhardt. Most of them were signed "Dionysus", though some were also signed "der Gekreuzigte" meaning "the crucified one". To his former colleague Burckhardt, Nietzsche wrote: "I have had Caiaphas put in fetters. Also, last year I was crucified by the German doctors in a very drawn-out manner. Wilhelm, Bismarck, and all anti-Semites abolished."[86] Additionally, he commanded the German emperor to go to Rome to be shot and summoned the European powers to take military action against Germany,[87] that the pope should be put in jail and that he, Nietzsche, created the world and was in the process of having all anti-Semites shot dead.[88]

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   15:55:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#12. To: Tooconservative (#11) (Edited)

Don't forget the part where Nietzsche was raised by a Lutheran pastor!

It was a propitious day: October 15, 1844. As if the family blood line could no longer endure another pastor, Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, the firstborn son of Carl Ludwig Nietzsche and Franziska Oehler, was at last born; it was in the presbytery of Röcken, a region of Saxony annexed by Prussia. When Friedrich was baptized on the 24th of October, his father read aloud from Luke 1:66: “Everyone who heard this wondered about it, asking, ‘What then is this child going to be?’ For the Lord’s hand was with him.” The church bells surely rang out in honor of him, though they could not know whom they were honoring . . .

 Too bad for Fred he wasn't taught to seek out the Truth of his creator with his own free mind.  Maybe if he had been educated instead of indoctrinated, his world view would've been more productive and less self-destructive.

Who made Nature's Laws?  Not Fred.  Fred's Dead!

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   16:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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